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tradman
01-27-2014, 08:29 PM
These tools come stock with the T rated Mixed pick. The mixed picks are all i have. I have only done 3 days with these but one of those was @ The lake. Yesterday at a different venue with a long WI 2+ slab followed by a WI4 curtain was PDFC (pretty Damn Fcking Cold) and these tools were awesom. I hear some folks add the Petzle pick weights? No way would I add pick weights. These tools climb ice just fine without the weights. My only complaint performance wise is they do have a tendency to over drive and get stuck more than my Quarks. I feel pick weights would simply exasperate this problem. In fact the stock mixed picks climb ice so well I am afraid to try the ice pick. Also these tools can be a bit tricky topping out on bulges. Alden suggested that I remove the upper trigger as he noticed that was what was getting in the way and it should not be nessicary unless climbing M10 and harder. I just did that and replaced it with my standard hockey tape.


My only remaining concerns are the tools are so light that I wonder how they will perform in a full contact mortal combat situation where you need to beat away a bunch of crud, candles or 3/4 in sheets of ice over snow etc. @ the base of pillars. I had a day on 20 below zero gully where I needed to excavate a lot of crap to get good screws. the x Dreams were barely up to the task yet they climbed so well that good screws did not seem quite as Vital. The ice picks w/ the hammers may be the ticket for those days but realisticly few folks will switch out picks for specific climbs.
Kind of silly INMOP to have hammers on the ice picks but no way of pounding pins with the rock/ mixed picks?

These tools definatly do Not like grade 2 ice. They do ok on 2+ and good on 3 but suck on 1 and 2. keeping the Quarks in the quiver for easy gully solos.


Great tools Yes! Game changer? Not unless I start leading 5+.
Right now I consider myself a solid 4+ leader who has managed to grovel up the occasional 5. Takeing into account that on ice 1/2 grades are actually full grades if I turn into a solid 5 leader that ocasionally grovels up a 5+ then I would call The x dreams a game changer, Untill then they are just really great tools :)

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LarryK
01-29-2014, 09:39 AM
Tradman, thanks for your review of the X Dreams. My nephew rented a pair of the X Dreams from the Mountaineer to compare them against my Nomics. Both he and I noted the same issue as you. If you swing too hard they due tend to over drive and take a little extra work to get them out. At first I thought the pick was not as wide as the cascade pick I use on the Nomics, but there really does not seem to be much of a difference.

Why did you pick the X Dreams over the Nomics since you climbed on Quarks, a Petzl product? There are a number of ice tools on the market these days similar to the shape of the Nomics, X Dreams, etc., so I'm curious why you bought the X Dreams.

homeless junkie
01-29-2014, 11:37 AM
If you file off the bird beak on the picks the XDreams won't get stuck as much. You don't need to detune the pick like a Petzl or BD pick but getting rid of the bird beak helps. Well unless you're out there climbing something thin.

My only complain is the picks need to be touched up with a file almost everyday.

C4C
01-29-2014, 01:53 PM
a plus to switching to the ice picks (in addition to a different angle) is the addition of a pounding anvil

tradman
01-29-2014, 10:14 PM
I went with the X dreams because the Nomic grips seem a bit tight on my hands, X dreams are cheaper I got mine for 246 ea and i liked the color;) I have never felt the need to de tune A petzle pick. I try to keep them @ the stock angle when I sharpen them. that is what works for me.

tradman
01-29-2014, 10:14 PM
C4C have you climbed w/ the ice pick?

rockytop
01-30-2014, 05:46 AM
Tradman, Since I always carry a third tool, one with full capabilities, I've found having one of the All-Mountain tools as my third tool works well in combo with the X-Dreams, both if I need to pound a pin or to swap out with one of the X-Dreams on lower angle stuff. Obviously, if you still have your Quarks, they'd work pretty well as a third tool as well. See you out there! MWVIF this weekend if you're over there.

Derby
01-30-2014, 06:45 AM
Trad, when you said that you never needed to detune the Petzl picks, I assume you meant the Cascade pick that fits the older quarks. I've found that the new ice pick that fits the new quark needs detuning. I'll bet that we have a similar swing, since we both have carpentry experience and we've climbed comfortably on the same tools. We probably both "swing for the bleachers" when planting tools. Yet I find that I like the way the XDream cleans and I don't feel the need to detune, and I like the birds beak on the tip. I'm not sure why we have different experiences with the XDreams but since your experience is less than satisfying maybe you should ponder this before changing the pick shape.

tradman
01-30-2014, 07:40 PM
Chris. I think you missunderstood me. I was trying to give an objective gear review. I did say they are really great tools! Let me sumarize'
These are the best steep ice tools I have ever used. I do have an occasional over stick. not too many but enough that it is on the radar and I do have concerns about frajility in full contact warfare. i would like to try the ice pick but concerned about the B rated pick not being as rugged as the T rated pick. When I switched to old style Quarks 4 or 5? seasons ago I stopped useing a 3rd tool. It was a huge relief to NOT have that anchor hanging off my ass! I felt 200% confident w/ the quarks that i would not need a 3rd tool. time will tell if i get that same feeling with the X Dreams. I have Zero intention of modifying the X Dream picks. I may try the ice picks but would like to read a review on them before spending $$$.

X Dreams the best Steep ice tool I have used.
Old style Quarks the hands down best all around snow climbing all the way to full contact 5+ tool ever made:)

Derby
01-30-2014, 08:40 PM
Chris. I think you missunderstood me. I was trying to give an objective gear review. I did say they are really great tools! Let me sumarize'
These are the best steep ice tools I have ever used. I do have an occasional over stick. not too many but enough that it is on the radar and I do have concerns about frajility in full contact warfare. i would like to try the ice pick but concerned about the B rated pick not being as rugged as the T rated pick. When I switched to old style Quarks 4 or 5? seasons ago I stopped useing a 3rd tool. It was a huge relief to NOT have that anchor hanging off my ass! I felt 200% confident w/ the quarks that i would not need a 3rd tool. time will tell if i get that same feeling with the X Dreams. I have Zero intention of modifying the X Dream picks. I may try the ice picks but would like to read a review on them before spending $$$.

X Dreams the best Steep ice tool I have used.
Old style Quarks the hands down best all around snow climbing all the way to full contact 5+ tool ever made:)


Fair 'nuf, and I agree about the quarks, about questioning the fragility of the XDream in full contact warfare, and, for me, the best steep ice tool, too. I'm just not sure why we have different experiences with the cleaning?

tradman
01-30-2014, 09:47 PM
Most of the time they clean perfectly. i have only climbed 900ft of ice with these. all lead or solo. i have had about 5 or six annoying over sticks. could be i will get used to thm and lower the incidence of over sticks? possibly the ice pick is even better on ice than the mixed pick and would solve the issue for me? Problem is the Mixed pick climbs so well I am afraid to make a change.

it'llgo
01-31-2014, 08:04 AM
I think you'll get in tune with the tools as you climb with them more. For me, that meant becoming more aware of when a swing might have overdriven, and fixing it before I move on the tool. I'll pull the tool back out and replace it a little softer, or at a slightly different angle. If it doesn't want to budge after the first stick, I'll just climb up high on it and pull the tool out by the upper shaft or head. Not really a big deal, as I like to stretch out my placements anyway.

C4C
01-31-2014, 05:26 PM
C4C have you climbed w/ the ice pick? yes that is what I am running right now.

tradman
02-01-2014, 06:28 AM
and how are they?

C4C
02-01-2014, 08:12 AM
I love them. I love-tapped rock early and curved the beak under, so that was de-tuned the first day... I still tend to overdrive on steep ice when I get excited but I am learning to climb up the shaft and yank from the hip and they clean better. bolts loosened a little about my 5th day of use. the angle of swing seems more natural to me (coming from trango scorpion/quarks) than the nomics and my meaty paw fits the handles better once set up right for me.

tradman
02-01-2014, 09:04 PM
lake again today . they cleaned perfectly all day. 1st pitch was bulletproof and i felt like I wanted pick weights. 2nd pitch was perfect.... thats ice climbing folks. it changes with the conditions........

homeless junkie
02-02-2014, 06:44 PM
Went out the last three days during Ice Fest and got to use the Dreams with no weights, the Dreams with Ice picks and the All Mountains again. That was fun! I think my biggest thing isn't what pick or weights or no weights... It's sharpening the picks every night! Haha.. it's good to know replacement picks are only $35. I keep getting closer to the end mark every week.

Sorry to be off topic but I'm liking the Fusions for mixed and drytooling.. Anybody got any feeling on that?

tradman
02-02-2014, 10:23 PM
what did you think of the dreams w/ ice picks? i see they list 2 different ice picks. x ice with the hammer? and the X dream ice which was 10 bucks more? i was a bit confused which was which on their website?

homeless junkie
02-03-2014, 09:35 AM
I think I'm so use to the Mixte pick that I would have to take more than a lap on the Ice picks to make a smart decision. Heck, I can't even swing the All Mountain tools now! I have spoken to two people who said they felt the ice pick's angle wasn't right so you don't get one and done swing. I also talked to one guy who loves the ice pick's hammer for mixed. Go figure.. The ice pick for mixed?

I checked out Cassins website. They got their picks labeled wrong. Two spots to click to buy XDreams comp picks?? I didn't see the picture of a X Dream ice pick. Just the one of the All Mtn.

it'llgo
02-03-2014, 09:41 AM
@ homeless junkie, I have a set of the green Fusions and I really like them. With the Fusion Ice picks on them, they're flat-out amazing on thin ice. I also really like the geometry of the handles on them. I fell completely locked into them and it's easier to beat the pump on steep stuff.

grammy
02-03-2014, 10:09 AM
Two seasons now under the belt with the X-Dreams and this will be my third with the X-All mountains. Couldn't be happier with the performance of both. I love the swing of the X-Dreams, the weight is perfect for me and I generally go with the standard ice pick though I did use the mixe pick last season with no real noticeable difference. These things are steep, thin mixed masters. Don't seem myself going to another tool anytime soon.

tradman
02-03-2014, 07:57 PM
so the ice pick you use has a hammer on it?

grammy
02-04-2014, 10:32 AM
so the ice pick you use has a hammer on it?

Yes they do Nick! small but come in handy now and then!

gunked
02-07-2014, 10:45 PM
I have Nomics and have been using the X-Dreams all season and the end of last season. The X-Dreams are the best steep ice tool I have ever used! I've no issue with the pick filing as others do. They plant wonderfully when not perfectly sharp. After 10 days out I did notice the bolt coming slightly loose at the handle. My 2 cents.

On a similar note, the Cassin All Mtn X's are also amazing for all around. Only flaw I've found is the second grip breaks a little easy and will flop around when busted. That said, the handle is easily replaceable.

grammy
02-13-2014, 10:36 AM
I have Nomics and have been using the X-Dreams all season and the end of last season. The X-Dreams are the best steep ice tool I have ever used! I've no issue with the pick filing as others do. They plant wonderfully when not perfectly sharp.
On a similar note, the Cassin All Mtn X's are also amazing for all around.

I agree 100% !!!

tradman
03-13-2014, 10:08 AM
Season somwhat winding down. All this snow is going to make it hard to get to some of the things still on my radar. The March sun has claimed a few of the thinner interesting options. The X Dreams are still amazeing and the picks are holding up very well. No over sticking issues of late. learned how to be a bit more delicate. My only complaint is that they are a bit too light for clearing crud. Perhaps the ice picks with the hammers solve that issue? will have to get a set for next year. Certainly for any thin delicate climbing these tools are insanly good. For chugging big fat pillars they climb very well but are lacking in heft to clear crud for screw placements. The lightness however is a huge part of what makes them climb so well. Quarks still my go too for easy gully climbs.

Derby
03-13-2014, 04:55 PM
Season somwhat winding down. All this snow is going to make it hard to get to some of the things still on my radar. The March sun has claimed a few of the thinner interesting options. The X Dreams are still amazeing and the picks are holding up very well. No over sticking issues of late. learned how to be a bit more delicate. My only complaint is that they are a bit too light for clearing crud. Perhaps the ice picks with the hammers solve that issue? will have to get a set for next year. Certainly for any thin delicate climbing these tools are insanly good. For chugging big fat pillars they climb very well but are lacking in heft to clear crud for screw placements. The lightness however is a huge part of what makes them climb so well. Quarks still my go too for easy gully climbs.

I agree with your assessment, especially the fact that the tools can't clear crap quickly. I have previously always made frequent use of an adze for clearing in preparation for screws or modifying a belay stance to make the feet, knees/ ankles more comfortable. I miss my adze.
Picks can't do as fast or as accurate a job as a well wielded adze.

tradman
03-13-2014, 05:27 PM
Have not had an adze in quite a few years but used the hammer and pick combo on the quarks with great effect for bashing out footholds or getting to good ice for a screw. i now use the pick on the x dreams to try to do this but it does not accomplish much. the best plan with these tools is to climb like a kitty and keep your eye peeled for any spot to place a screw that does not require much if any excavation. Really digging the spinners as well! watching my partner shoulder his tools on the last few big climbs with no teather was nerve wracking for me. I am so used to the system that it is wicked smooth for me now and offers so much peace of mind. With this fresh new snow I will not be supprised if we see annother round of lost tools...

tradman
03-13-2014, 05:33 PM
I think in a perfect world i would have a nomic w/ the x dream grip and some sort of thin sharp 3/14" spike on the bottom for days @ the lake where I anticipate a lot of crud and snow/ice cones. I would have a pair of X dreams with the addition of that spike for most days of climbing hardish and the old Quarks for hidden Gully, shoestring, hunnington etc.

tradman
03-21-2015, 05:19 PM
Tail end of season 2. these things still rock. Great for straight up ice climbing. require finess over power. Led a thin dry and brittle somewhat headdy P2of Fafnir and these tools were sweet. they felt a bit fragile on the P3 dry tooling. Overall I give them a 10. If I did a lot of dry tooling i would want something more rock specific.

Theriault
08-27-2015, 02:59 PM
I think in a perfect world i would have a nomic w/ the x dream grip and some sort of thin sharp 3/14" spike on the bottom for days @ the lake where I anticipate a lot of crud and snow/ice cones. I would have a pair of X dreams with the addition of that spike for most days of climbing hardish and the old Quarks for hidden Gully, shoestring, hunnington etc.

Good News, Camp is coming out with the X Dream Alpine wich will have a clippable spike at the bottom... better news, after talking with Camp, Its gonna be possible to purchase the Alpine handle only, aka we will not have to buy complete tools to get the alpine handle! Big thums up to Camp for being so versatile!


http://blog.weighmyrack.com/newest-gear-coming-fall-2015-from-the-winter-outdoor-trade-show/